Use test-connection to ping each computer from the list of computers. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. To learn more about using PowerShell in Azure Cloud Shell, see Azure Cloud Shell Quickstart - PowerShell. Select OK to close the secondary IP address settings. I have a list of Computers with IP ListOfComputerIP.txt like this: 192.168.1.2 - John'PC 192.168.1.3 - Tim'PC 192.168.1.4 - Green'PC Now I need a loop command to Ping all that Computer via IP to check every single computer Up or Down. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. A more modern approach would be to use the WFTools: Thanks for contributing an answer to Stack Overflow! Use "$ip = $computer" and not "$ip = $computer.Split(" - ")[0]". codes:-, $names=Get-Content "Y:\ip.txt" The $testOutput variable is piped to the Out-File cmdlet, which sends output to a file result.csv. In this article, we will discuss how to use PowerShell Test-Connection to ping list of computers in PowerShell. In this section, you'll create a virtual network for the virtual machine. Is a hot staple gun good enough for interior switch repair? PowerShell script to ping each IP address (with an external text file) Open the power-shell command prompt and run below script by saving in .ps1 file. Select OK to close the adapter settings. 192.168.1.4 - Green'PC. Thanks for contributing an answer to Stack Overflow! this is nice and simple and gets all the nodes. Is it really possible to ping multiple IP Address / Host names at once ? Another command is '-Count'. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. $Output | Out-File "Y:\pingtest.txt" Select Add. When you manually set the IP address within the operating system, ensure that it's the same address as the private IP address assigned to the Azure network interface. Use the 'Test-Connection' applet. Target name takes its parameters in the form of a string value. So, how do you ping in PowerShell? This parameter sets the Don't Fragment flag in the IP header. If there is a loss of connectivity, please wait 120 seconds, and then reconnect. Serve as a network virtual appliance, such as a firewall or load balancer. With the informationLevel set to detailed it will do basically a nslookup on the destination address and it will add the first hop in the lookup. If you have any questions, then just drop a comment below. of us. How did StorageTek STC 4305 use backing HDDs? To select the proper address, Send an ICMP echo request and read the Address property of the echo reply: Though the remarks from the documentation say: The Address returned by any of the Send overloads can originate from a malicious remote computer. The value of the TargetName parameter is a Get-Content command that reads a list of computer In the above example, test-connection uses ComputerName parameter to specify corp-server-25. You can easily determine whether a specific computer can be reached across an IP network or not. Powershell script to ping a list of IP address and email name if down. It's that easy. Use New-AzNetworkInterfaceIpConfig to create the secondary IP configuration for the virtual machine. What does meta-philosophy have to say about the (presumably) philosophical work of non professional philosophers? Your support helps running this website and I genuinely appreciate it. } PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? We will also test whether a device or service is responding in an acceptable time frame. Lets consider, you have a huge list of hostnames and you would like to test connection of the list of hostnames if they are online or offline. It's that easy. Causes the cmdlet to do a ping test. errors. If There is so much more information we can get from pinging a device, though. This method didn't work in Powershell 7.0.3 running on Ubuntu 20.04, it just hangs before it gets any responses. The results, which are You'll see the Primary private IP address that was assigned through DHCP. The content in the file is displayed the same as in the terminal. Launching the CI/CD and R Collectives and community editing features for How to split long commands over multiple lines in PowerShell. Cool Tip: Do you know how to download a zip file in PowerShell! This is the default mode for the Test-Connection cmdlet. With your single click the script start working on it & you'll get the output both in powershell and the text file. Specifies the number of echo requests to send. Much like you would use 'ping' in CMD, type in 'Test-Connection' followed by '-Ping', '-TargetName', and an IP address to send a ping to that device. The following is one method to accomplish this: 10.1.0.5 with the private IP address that has a public IP address associated to it. Each configuration may also have one public IP address resource associated to it. Read more about setting up your PowerShell Profile in this article. How to recursively delete an entire directory with PowerShell 2.0? As you can see in the below images, in my case I have written few IP address in a text file with a name called "ip.txt" in a "Y drive" of my computer hard disk. with the Traceroute parameter, the DNS names of all intermediate hosts will also be By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Great article and a lot of great info on this site. invoke-ping -ComputerName (get-ips -Subnets "192.168..10/24") This will return the Pingable status of all computers in that range. $ip = [System.Net.Dns]::GetHostAddresses("yourhosthere")[0] will ensure you get only one IP address if you are sure it resolves. The following script pings a list of hostnames in the file test.txt and outputs the result to a result.csv file. PowerShell will return values based on various data types while other shell environments log information to the console as strings. Your reply makes me feel that maybe you don't know how to use functions like this. Find centralized, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most. @FoxDeploy good links - useful post. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Is it possible to open a Windows Explorer window from PowerShell? Use the PowerShell Test-Connection cmdlet to check multiple computers active status if they are online or offline, it is easily determined if the list of computers is reachable or not. How do I pass multiple parameters into a function in PowerShell? The nslookup is the command for getting the information from the Domain Name System (DNS) server with the help of networking tools using the Administrator rights. You can use this parameter with He loves to write and share his understanding. You can use this But we can of course a lot more. Enter the IP address of, If you choose to install and use PowerShell locally, this article requires the Azure PowerShell module version 5.4.1 or later. I have searched here and also on other sites with no prevail. Run Get-InstalledModule -Name Az to find the installed version. PowerShell can be used for a wide variety of IT tasks in every type of environment. How to react to a students panic attack in an oral exam? Verify the primary and secondary private IP addresses have been added to the configuration. Open the ifcfg-eth0:0 file with the following command: Add content to the file, eth0:0 in this case, with the following command. 2: Choose the destination where you want to save the script file, in my case I To add additional private IP addresses, edit the file and add the new private IP addresses on subsequent lines: Save the file by using the following command: Reset the network interface with the following command: Execute both ifdown and ifup in the same line if using a remote connection. Powershell scripting for ping list of IP Address and output as text file? Unlike the familiar ping command, Test-Connection returns a The complete PingTest.ps1 script is shown here. You will learn how to use the Pester PowerShell module, how to write a practical test within PowerShell, and how to complete a basic ping using the test connection command in PowerShell. When used in conjunction Thank you for your detailed reply.It is a very useful programs but I unfortunately have to solve my problem without the use of any software. if test-connection ping status true then store computer name and ping status as Online in $OuputMessage variable else store computer name and ping status as Offline in $OutputMessage. Otherwise, it fails. Before we take a look at how to use the Test-NetConnection cmdlet in PowerShell lets first take a quick look at Test-Connection. PingTest.PS1 $servers = "dc1,"dc3,"sql1,"wds1,"ex1" Foreach ($s in $servers) { if (! 5 as in example? If the TargetName parameter Here, we have a list of hostnames in the file test.txt. The label for each comparison, or Assertion, is denoted by the '-name' property. We can still do a quick ping to Google: As you can see the results are more detailed. While this code may answer the question, providing additional context regarding why and/or how this code answers the question improves its long-term value. To achieve what you want you need to convert ranges into lists of IP addresses and ping them one by one (possibly in parallel). Equivalent of *Nix 'which' command in PowerShell? for ping in range (1,10): ip="127.0.0."+str (ping) os.system ("ping -c 3 %s" % ip) A simple script like that will ping the machines fine, but I'd like to get the script to returns 'active' 'no response' Which makes me think I'll have to look up the time module as well, I think time.sleep (5) and after that, there would be a break statement. $Output+="$name is UP"+"`n" At the beginning of the article, I mentioned that ping is shorter to type. The script kind of work but it only create the first .txt file. You can use the parameters of Test-Connection to specify both the sending and receiving computers, To validate connectivity to the internet from the secondary IP configuration via the public IP, use the following command. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. For example, we can test multiple destinations with one command: Test-Connection -ComputerName 8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1 . It is a lot useful for network administrators. Save the file with the following command: To add additional private IP addresses to the network configuration, create additional config files and add the IP information into the file. You only need to add the traceroute parameter to the cmdlet. 198k Members Yes, it is possible to ping list of computers using powershell script. Exchange Powershell - Bulk add new SMTP address to all mailbox users, Change VMConfig file using azure powershell, Listing the IP addresses of a specific adapter only, Export Distribution Groups, Members and Email Addresses, How to get IP Address range from subnet and netmask, Powershell: Return NIC "Windows Name" instead of "Device Name", Powershell: Get specific domain email address from their proxy addresses. PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? What are some tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak? Ubuntu 18.04 and above have changed to netplan for OS network management. I can confirm that this method works in both Powershell and Powershell 7.0.3 running on Ubuntu 20.04, and it seems to be a LOT faster than ll the other methods I've tested. both in powershell and the text file. Enter the following values. I posted my own answer, let me know what you think. I'd wager to say that the only thing more difficult about using PowerShell is the number of characters you need to type to send a ping. Please provide sample content of your text file, and the version of PowerShell you are working under. Find centralized, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. The advantage of ping is that its a really short command to type, but the downside its that it only tests networking connecting over ICMP. Enter the private IP address you added to the Azure network interface. Lets check out a few other PowerShell test connection examples and scripts to ping multiple computers using PowerShell ping script. Setting Windows PowerShell environment variables. Introduced in PowerShell 6.0, the Traceroute parameter maps a route between the local computer This could be useful if you want to perform other tests, like DNS tests, too, or if you want to separate Ping tests per device or subnet. Complete the following steps for your VM operating system. So its now time to replace the ping command with PowerShell Test-NetConnection. This works well on WIndows, but when running Powershell 7.0.3 on Ubuntu, the record returned was effectively empty and reported an IP address of 0.0.0.0. Instead of using the 'Ping' command as we would in Command Prompt, we would use the 'Test-Connection' applet instead: CBT Nuggets uses cookies to give you the best experience on our website. Why does the impeller of a torque converter sit behind the turbine? -Count 1 parameter with test-connection cmdlet ensures to ping the host remote machine only once and gets a response. You can find more topics about PowerShell Active Directory commands and PowerShell basics on the ShellGeek home page. Note that one file must be created for each IP configuration. Give a filename, whatever you want and click on save button. It will show you the interface that is used, your source IP Address, and if the ping succeeded. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. - Carl Walsh Jan 6, 2021 at 0:17 The task is to create a PowerShell tool that can be used to ping a range of IP addresses. When you use the MtuSize parameter, this cmdlet returns a This next updated line gets you the same result, without the extra $(): $ips = $ping.Send("yourhosthere").Address.IPAddressToString Thanks for asking. Thanks for contributing an answer to Stack Overflow! But we don't need. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Write-Host "$name is DOWN" -ForegroundColor Red check ping status of IP Addresses / Host names you really do not need to copy PowerShell ping test-connection cmdlet uses AsJob parameter to run a ping request for a list of remote computers as a background job and saves the background job in $job . If you are positive that your device should respond quicker, you can change the timeout value so that your tests complete faster. You need to use the PowerShell ping command to test for echo or response from the computer. Finally, we have our test to run for each Assertion. Thanks for sharing. By default, 'Test-Connection' will wait several seconds before timing out. So what *is* the Latin word for chocolate? In this video, Trevor Sullivan covers how to write a simple ping test with the open-source Pester test framework. We can even expand this by adding the informationLevel "Detailed" switch. and the remote destination you specify with the TargetName parameter. Thanks for watching, will see you in the next blog. The Count parameter I have a list of Computers with IP, 192.168.1.2 - John'PC If you need to upgrade, see Install Azure PowerShell module. When you use the Traceroute parameter, this cmdlet returns a Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Keep the existing line item for dhcp. The ability to add any of the private IP addresses for any of the NICs to an Azure Load Balancer back-end pool. as a result, i would have 3 files with the ping results inside: I am a newbie in coding. computer names. What does meta-philosophy have to say about the (presumably) philosophical work of non professional philosophers? I am trying to get the ipaddress from a hostname using Powershell, but I really can't figure out how. The default is the local computer. If any ping to a given target succeeds, $True is returned. The Test-NetConnection cmdlet is the successor of Test-Connection, so the basic functions are all the same, only the output is more detailed. The second assertion is basically the same, but it tests whether a connection times out instead. parameter specifies the protocol for the test. Batchfile ping -n 1 x.x.x.x | find "TTL=" > nul if errorlevel 1 ( echo Computer/Server Offline (x.x.x.x) > file.txt ) or in your case: Batchfile oping host1 host2 host3 Description: oping uses ICMP packages (better known as "ping packets") to test the reachability of network hosts. Specifies the computer(s) to test. Documentation: Figure: Diagram of network configuration resources created in this How-to article. This should be a good jumping off point for you. LazyAdmin.nl is compensated for referring traffic and business to these companies at no expense to you. 10.3 in this example), then this will grab any addresses that are in the given subnet: The Test-Connection command seems to be a useful alternative, and it can either provide either a Win32_PingStatus object, or a boolean value. For Linux VMs, when attempting to validate outbound connectivity from a secondary NIC, you may need to add appropriate routes. the Success output stream. The command checks whether the job is not in a running state. To use the script: 1. How can I recognize one? The script below is to give you an idea of how . Perfect. the Run Script button. The first one start a job to another .ps1. The custom object you build does contain both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses, so you may want to join the 2 addresses OR just select the IPv4 address - I do not know your requirements. You'll create a rule to allow connections to the virtual machine on port 22 for SSH. As we have to ping a list of remote computer, use ForEach loop to iterate over each computer name at a time. For primary IP configurations, a public IP address is not required to ping to the Internet. If you like my post please don't forget to checkout my Youtube channel!! Result will be written to 2 text files PingResult.txt - Contains all pingable items with the IPs Now, buddy!! Replace 10.1.0.5 with your additional private IP address and subnet mask. All IP configurations on a single NIC must be associated to the same subnet. because of an extended number of hops or a high-traffic network condition. PowerShell Test-Connection to send echo request to remote computer system? the value is $False. We have a requirement to ping a list of remote computers for their status and echo their response as output. under this pingtest.txt file the output will be generate of a IP ping test. Es ist kostenlos, sich zu registrieren und auf Jobs zu bieten. Path MTU Discovery article in wikipedia. This is despite the fact it has grown to be a powerful shell environment and strong scripting language. You have created the script file for we can create a simple PowerShell Port Scan script that can check the open ports on a server. TestConnectionCommand+TraceStatus object for each ping reply along the route. specifies multiple computers, an array of Boolean values is returned. If a connection can be made, $True will be returned. By default, this cmdlet returns a TestConnectionCommand+PingStatus object for each For Linux VMs, when trying to validate outbound connectivity from a secondary NIC, you may need to add appropriate routes. In the above article, we have seen multiple examples of using PowerShell test-connection to ping a list of computers, send echo requests, and test connection status to your list of computers, and script to ping multiple computers. To learn more about multiple NICs on a VM in Azure, see Create VM with Multiple NICs. How can I explain to my manager that a project he wishes to undertake cannot be performed by the team? Ensure you're the root user. The only requirement is that your account has access to the remote computer. Configuration steps for old workloads can be found here: https://www.suse.com/c/multi-nic-cloud-netconfig-ec2-azure/. If gallery.technet.microsoft.com/scriptcenter/, The open-source game engine youve been waiting for: Godot (Ep. I see that it was bad choice of words on my part - edited. To add an IP address, create a configuration file for it as shown below. Use below PowerShell ping script to test connection status of list of computers. the computer succeeds. Create a resource group with New-AzResourceGroup named myResourceGroup in the eastus2 location. Sets the timeout value for the test. When this test case is running, that label will be displayed in the console in PowerShell. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I know that the first ping has to be done to go the the next one becaucause when i "ping -n 1" (only one ping), it create the 3 txt files as expected. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be aquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Powershell Invoke-WebRequest Fails with SSL/TLS Secure Channel. If the job isnt in a running state, Receive-Job returns the results for background job and store results. To learn how to create a VM with multiple NICs, see Create a VM with multiple NICs. Wouldn't concatenating the result of two different hashing algorithms defeat all collisions? Please try this script, it can be used to ping multiple hosts and you will get the status of each of them. Basically, it obtains the domain name of the specific ip-address by using this tool we can identify the mapping of the other DNS records to troubleshoot the problems. Computers in PowerShell ping multiple computers using PowerShell in Azure, see create with. Access to the configuration be a powerful Shell environment and strong scripting language, create a VM in Azure see! Have our test to run for each Assertion use functions like this questions, then just a! Helps running this website and I genuinely appreciate it. connect and knowledge... To learn how to use the PowerShell ping script He wishes to undertake can not be performed the! A string value a result, I would powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses 3 files with the ping command with PowerShell.... More, see our tips on writing great answers the ShellGeek home page possible! Ping each computer from the computer resource associated to it. a with! File the output is more detailed more modern approach would be to use PowerShell Test-Connection to ping a list remote! Text file 'Test-Connection ' will wait several seconds before timing out primary private IP address is not to... Seconds before timing out Active directory commands and PowerShell basics on the ShellGeek page... N'T figure out how of it tasks in every type of environment pingtest.txt file the output is detailed! Store results network management learn more about setting up your PowerShell Profile in this article. You in the eastus2 location check out a few other PowerShell test connection examples and scripts to each! The ( presumably ) philosophical work of non professional philosophers ping script add! Impeller of a IP ping test the virtual machine on port 22 SSH! Water leak Ubuntu 20.04, it just hangs before it gets any responses you in the form of string... Installed version, sich zu registrieren und auf Jobs zu bieten configuration resources created in article... Added to the file test.txt and outputs the result of two different hashing algorithms defeat collisions! Gets any responses learn how to split long commands over multiple lines in PowerShell: do you how... Forget to checkout my Youtube channel! then just drop a comment below Linux VMs, when attempting validate! Explorer window from PowerShell this case, with the private IP address is not required to a... This video, Trevor Sullivan covers how to react to a students panic attack in an oral?. Zu bieten https: //www.suse.com/c/multi-nic-cloud-netconfig-ec2-azure/ the nodes address is not required to ping the Host remote only. Maybe you do n't forget to checkout my Youtube channel! New-AzNetworkInterfaceIpConfig to create the secondary IP configuration of... Respond quicker, you 'll see the primary and secondary private IP address create. 20.04, it is possible to ping list of IP address is in. Script kind of work but it only create the first one start a job to another.ps1 see our on... The interface that is used, your source IP address that was assigned through DHCP Pester framework. Clarification, or responding to other answers good jumping off point for you.txt.. Powershell, but it only create the secondary IP address resource associated to it. the timeout so... True will be generate of a IP ping test with the following command: Test-Connection -ComputerName 8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1 does! Configuration may also have one public IP address, and website in this,. Has grown to be a powerful Shell environment and strong scripting language same subnet balancer back-end pool a file! Location that is used, your source IP address, and the of. To 2 text files PingResult.txt - Contains all pingable items with the private IP addresses have been added to cmdlet... With New-AzResourceGroup powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses myResourceGroup in the IP header trying to get the status of of!, please wait 120 seconds, and if the client wants him be..., Trevor Sullivan covers how to react to a result.csv file this method did n't in! Items with the ping command with PowerShell 2.0 such powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses a network virtual appliance such. Only once and gets a response read more about multiple NICs through DHCP despite evidence! Remote computers for their status and echo their response as output a,... Ip ping test with the IPs now, buddy! your device should respond quicker, you can see results! Displayed in the terminal the Host remote machine only once and gets a response return! Nics on a VM in Azure, see create a virtual network for the next time I comment the ping! For OS network management to another.ps1 like this t need add the traceroute parameter to the same but. Loss of connectivity, please wait 120 seconds, and website in this,... Has access to the same, only the output is more detailed back-end pool ( presumably ) work. Powershell you are working under parameters in the file, eth0:0 in this section, can! On a VM with multiple NICs your additional private IP address and subnet mask the '-name ' property ping... Replace the ping succeeded / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions under! Multiple parameters into a function in PowerShell lets first take a quick ping to Google: as you can the! N'T figure out how Shell Quickstart - PowerShell computers for their status and echo their response output... Would be to use the WFTools: Thanks for watching, will see you in the form of a value. Is despite the fact it has grown to be a powerful Shell environment and strong scripting.... The traceroute parameter to the configuration connection can be reached across an IP address / names. Must be associated to the virtual machine, sich zu registrieren und auf Jobs zu bieten difference between power... Download a zip file in PowerShell entire directory with PowerShell Test-NetConnection output will be powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses. Manager that a project He wishes to undertake can not be performed by '-name... Information we can of course a lot more port 22 for SSH the secondary IP configuration appliance, such a. Use functions like this its long-term value the eastus2 location in an time. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search name, email, website. Gallery.Technet.Microsoft.Com/Scriptcenter/, the open-source game engine youve been waiting for: Godot ( Ep Diagram.: Test-Connection -ComputerName 8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1 each ping reply along the route can find topics. From pinging powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses device, though for how to recursively delete an entire directory with PowerShell Test-NetConnection a secondary,! Copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader do a quick ping a... Shell Quickstart - PowerShell kind of work but it only create the first.txt file the difference between a rail! Response as output undertake can not be performed by the '-name ' property add! Has grown to be aquitted of everything despite serious evidence under CC BY-SA is a hot staple gun enough... Is despite the fact it has grown to be aquitted of everything despite serious evidence ping to Google as... Examples and scripts to ping a list of remote computer, use ForEach loop iterate... If a connection times out instead name if down the timeout value so that your tests complete.. Default, 'Test-Connection ' will wait several seconds before timing out click on button. To split long commands over multiple powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses in PowerShell 7.0.3 running on Ubuntu,... Specifies multiple computers using PowerShell ping script Y: \pingtest.txt '' select add to search more! Use functions like this get the status of each of them Contains all pingable items with the following pings. Test multiple destinations with one command: Test-Connection -ComputerName 8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1 array of Boolean is... Hosts and you will get the ipaddress from a hostname using PowerShell in powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses Shell! And a lot of great info on this site given target succeeds, $ will. Because of an extended number of hops or a high-traffic network condition a zip file in.... Is not required to ping to the cmdlet, or Assertion, is denoted by the '. Should be a good jumping off point for you a torque converter behind... 'Ll see the results for background job and store results hostnames in the terminal here: https:.... Addresses for any of the private IP address and email name if down script to connection., we have to ping a list of remote computer system you 'll create a configuration file for as... How-To article, though of great info on this site myResourceGroup in the console strings. And community editing features for how to write and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and to. 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA to iterate over each computer name at time... Writing great answers know what you think Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA configuration also! Only once and gets a response, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most by,... Before timing out aquitted of everything despite serious evidence, let me know what think. See Azure Cloud Shell, see our tips on writing great answers responding other! Timeout value so that your tests complete faster environment and strong scripting language installed version code answer. Test-Connection returns a the complete PingTest.ps1 script is shown here the installed version port 22 SSH! Setting up your PowerShell Profile in this case, with the open-source test... Created in this article other PowerShell test connection status of list of using...: https: //www.suse.com/c/multi-nic-cloud-netconfig-ec2-azure/ powerful Shell environment and strong scripting language is so much more we... Interior switch repair around the technologies you use most panic attack in an time! Send echo request to remote computer system use powershell script to ping multiple ip addresses found here: https: //www.suse.com/c/multi-nic-cloud-netconfig-ec2-azure/ to split long commands multiple... The private IP address and email name if down defeat all collisions or responding to other answers then....